One other thing....stack your washer and dryer!

If you live near a Lowe's go in and talk to the PSI Team. They have professional Kitchen designers on staff that will help you with your layout/design (no charge). They understand things like a "working triangle" and prep/cleanup areas and will help you design a kitchen that looks nice and functions well too. Then you can order the cabinets and DIY it or they can get you a contractor to install them. I just finished designing my new kitchen with them and we are just starting in the process of installing it now. (I went with their contractor for the install). Plus I got 25% off my cabinets and a 10% rebate. I was very happy with their services. (P.S. I like your plan "B")

ptreckel: Unfortunately, head room for the basement stairs (they are already very steep) is the issue with the small recess, I only have 23" to work with there. Yes, I will definitely make a cubby with coat hooks and bench beside the back door! Thanks for the suggestions.

Creative Partner: I will definitely play around with moving the fridge to the other wall. I'm not sure I can convince my husband to shell out for a new fridge, but I will explore the options. I agree that counter-depth would certainly help. Regarding the washer and dryer, I actually love having them so close to my kitchen and like the European model of integrating them. I know that might not be best for resale, but it works for me. I will look at the option of having cabinet doors made for them. We actually took a coat closet out last year to make room for them there. Thanks for your input!

Is it possible to move the basement door to the spot where the "shelves" are in Option A and B-- you'd have to build new stairs going the opposite direction in the basement-- then you'd free up a lot of space where the door and yellow picture are currently for the refrigerator. It would give you a wider room in the end. Alternatively you could move the door to where counter on the range wall is in Option B and then rebuild the basement stairs with a turn (going the same direction). I think the easiest and best thing to do however is to get a true counter depth refrigerator as this one is just so big for the room you have.

None of the above. Hire an independent Kitchen Designer immediately. You need to understand design, and you don’t. Here are just a few of the rules. http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/kitchen.design.rules.htm#.WowrW_9MHYU

Also, my range is on an inside wall and the vent wraps around to an outside wall. I don't see why you can't do this-- vent it to the wall with the little window. So Option B can definitely work as long as you arrange the stove close enough to the outside wall for the vent to reach it. You can use that "shelves" space to run the vent.

That link Sophie posted is extremely helpful!

I agree with Sophie. Get a CKD ASAP. (certified kitchen designer)

I would think about moving the kitchen to the mudroom and the mudroom to the kitchen. That mudroom is huge. You could move the entry door to where the window over the sink is.

However, before you do anything, get a CKD to help you. You are way in over your head.

Hi beckstar80,

I played around with this from an open-book viewpoint and have come up with something completely different that I think might work. Again, without dimensions I can't be sure but here it is.

It satisfies your desires for a built-in frig look and counter seating. It also satisfies general kitchen usage spacing guidelines as well. I've shown my wall changes in the dashed lines for you.

I've left an approximate 2' wide entryway into the mudroom from the kitchen. When it comes time down the road to replace the washer/dryers units, the dryer slides out first to accommodate replacing the washer. The mudroom is at least 36-40 wide at that point and you have large enough doors in the mudroom for removal and replacement of these large appliances.

I've centered your sink on the window. The range is out of view of the dining room and has ample space behind it for safe oven use. Your view from the dining room is now of beautiful cabinetry and no appliances.

Let me know what you think. And I can always create this to scale with your actual dimensions if you'd like.

Karen

mrykbee, you should not do that because of all the bends in the vent. If she is redesigning, then venthood on the outside wall would be best.

Thank you all for your input! I love that there is a community of people willing to help each other out!

Sophie and Kathi: I appreciate professionals who devote their lives to honing and crafting their trade. I would never underestimate the value of one! However, I have a degree in architecture and worked professionally as a landscape designer. I do understand design and recognize that I am dealing with spacial limitations that do not satisfy kitchen design standards. That is why I am asking for help thinking outside the box. Thank you for the link, it is a site I have poured over in the past several years.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that this is our first home and not intended to be our forever home. We are also in a neighborhood where we may not get the best return on our investment, so while we are excited and eager to make this kitchen the best it can be within our budget, we really can't justify major expenses. The kitchen sink is definitely in the ideal location for views out to our deck and backyard.

Grey Heron: Thanks for really thinking outside the box! I will play around with that idea and see if there is enough space. One thing we are trying to rectify is the congestion moving from the mudroom to the kitchen, so I was hoping to have a wider opening there. I also want to make sure my refrigerator has enough room to open so I can get the drawers out to clean.

mrykbee: You may be right about the counter-depth refrigerator. Might have to gently lead my husband to that conclusion! And keep my eyes open for good deals!

beckstar80,

You could take my concept and move your frig to the 'dead space' so it faces out. It will widen that entryway but you will see the frig from the dining room.

Do you have access to any 3D software?

Karen

I’ve been using the IKEA kitchen planner and have recently been learning Sketchup. The plans were done in Sketchup, but I haven’t made it 3D yet. That's my next step.

Sketchup is a 3D tool. Just make sure you use the rotate tool before you start and you'll see all 3 axes.

@kathi steele, of course that is the best case scenario, but she doesn't have the easiest space. The point is it can be done and is done pretty often as a second best option. Think to all the houses you've been in and count how many stoves were on an inside wall. Or even google house plans (which I did to check myself). I bet it's more than you think.

Here's where I end up if we go with a counter depth fridge: 42 5/8" from fridge door to oven door. Does that seem tolerable? I know 48" is ideal, but I have seen 42" listed as a minimum.

This is totally out of the box, but have you considered flipping the two rooms?

You already have plumbing in both, so I wouldn’t think it would be that extensive. You would lose the “mudroom” aspect, but it might be worth it.

I haven't seriously considered flipping the rooms (though I'm open to exploring all possibilities) for two main reasons. You may not be able to tell from the photos but the mudroom ceiling height is at least 8" lower than the kitchen. We will have a structural support beam when we take out the wall that will help make the transition less noticable. The high ceilings in the kitchen are a definite plus and match the height of the dining/living rooms. The other reason is that the windows in the mudroom face an apartment building next door (hedgerow of arborvitae in between) and the window by my kitchen sink faces out to our landscaped back yard, definitely the better view and I can watch the kids as I work. For a while I was working on an option that had a banquette with a table along the mudroom wall instead of the peninsula, but that felt a little crowded.

If you move the kitchen to the mudroom, you could just eliminate the side windows. Put the sink facing the back yard. If you put a slider where you presently have your sink window it would give your living space a much improved indoor/outdoor feel letting in more light.

I asked a few days ago, but it really would be helpful if you could provide some dimensions. It's near impossible to offer feasible solutions when we don't know those details.

I will definitely try to post dimensions tomorrow. I've been busy this week and still haven't figured out how to add them in Sketchup.

If you can just sketch out the wall dimensions on paper and take a photo, that's all we need to get started. Old school.

Here you go. Let me know if you need any other dims. Again, thanks everyone for your comments and ideas!

Something isn't adding up for me. Could that 15'8" instead be 13'8"?

It's definitely 15'8, not sure where else it might be off?

Ohh! I figured it out. der.

how about this

That is really close to something I have looked at! I like how you extended the counter farther than I have and added a narrow depth counter. There's something about being able to sit and face into the working space of the kitchen. What do you think about keeping the refrigerator on the other side, though, so that it is more open when you walk in the back door? I will change this layout to see what your version looks like as soon as I get a chance.

absolutely would work...

Here are some more views/options now that I figured out how easy it is to take screen shots :)

If you go with Leah's plan but move the stove to the wall opposite the sink, you would have a long countertop area after the sink and you could add a pantry with a microwave area. Then you would have a good flow of food from fridge to sink to stove and have a large prep area and a pantry.

It is always best to have the fridge in the spot like Leah has because people can help themselves to drinks without getting in the way of the prep or cooking or cleaning.

another option

Can you post a link to your IKEA plan? Email it to yourself to get it.

Leah, that looks awesome!!

I think Leah has the best option so far

beckstar80 this is what it would look like

(Leah's design) with the exception of locating the DW on the right

It's really important to you to have counter seating somewhere in the kitchen. Who do you envision using the counter seating? A perch for you while cooking? Snacks for two kiddos? Can you get away with a stool+overhang for one?

Here is my take. Push your island more into the mud room, this will give you way more working counter room in your kitchen. Range and sink on the same wall, this long run of counter without the frig breaking it up will make your kitchen look and feel much larger. You won't be able to reach your uppers over the washer and dryer if you put that corner in the counter for the mud room. Use the space on each side of your door/doors to add closets or closed storage for that big red tool box?

I completely agree with wanting the refrigerator out of the work area. I can't tell you how many times my kids are climbing up it with the door hanging open, aargh!

Here are a couple 3D shots of Leah's plan. I didn't bump out the refrigerator into the mudroom because I think it would save us money to use the existing wall to frame in the refrigerator (smaller support header). I think it still works. The third shot shows how I could get more seating under the mudroom window, but I'm not sure I want to lose the extra storage (not much closet space in the rest of the house.)

http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/US/UI/Pages/VPUI.htm?LoadDesign=2dfcf062f2684f3189ff09ce30cc1151&UIContext=SE_Menu&IsSharedDesign=1&Entry=Kitchen

I like this layout, but I do still really like the idea of a larger peninsula.

I have worked with clients before where the seating was situated like original in the mudroom area and they told me later that it felt uncomfortable to sit there because they seemed too far away.

benjesbride: I'd like the counter seating for both purposes, for me to perch, while cooking or looking at recipes, eating a snack, etc. I also have 3 kiddos that are always around and it would be nice to be able to get breakfast/lunch in the kitchen.

Jaime: I haven't tried a plan moving the fridge to the other side, so I'll try that next. I think we might be open to getting a counter-depth fridge, so that gives me another 6" of aisle space.

Side note: I don't really like the look of a counter overhang that is not supported in someway, either with brackets or a waterfall edge all the way to the floor. If it ends up being the only option, I could live with it, just not ideal.

Any of these options would be better than what we've been living with for the last 10 years!

I have an island with an overhang that is supported with brackets. You need the overhang for leg room to sit so why not push that over hang into the mud room area? With a nice finish on your counter edges it can look very nice.

ALSO, is there some reason you are lining the cabinets under the island up with where the old wall was?? It is very easy to push them out into the mud room area to get you more counter and cabinets in your kitchen work area (just trying to think out side the box). I think I would rather have more "kitchen" work area than a jumbo walkway through the mud room!?! P.S. - don't give up your island seating area I think it one of the best parts of your design.

Jaime: My husband thanks you! He loves the peninsula and said he'd almost rather move than do a remodel without it (and he's not given to drama, promise!) As to your question about pushing it out into the mudroom, I'm not opposed to it, and there is room - I've mocked it up with my moving island cart. I'm just a little picky about alignment and I don't like the visual of a header beam over the middle of the counter. I might try moving it so the kitchen side of the counter lines up with the beam. Also, I was wanting to waterfall the edge of the peninsula and would want to do the same with the other side closest to the back door ($$$). I'm sure we could compromise there with either a corbel, or a wood panel instead of the counter material.

My mom, sister and I do agree that Leah's plan significantly improves functionality. It just doesn't have the same kind of vibe we were hoping for and were getting kind of excited about.

I will model Jaime's plan and post it tomorrow for feedback.

Oh, another question of opinion: would you go with a 12" or 15" overhang for the peninsula?

And, as for the tool chest, I will rejoice the day it moves to the garage! We've just had too many projects going, it's become a semi-permanent fixture in the house :)

You might consider centering your header beam with the middle of the island and hanging pendant lights from the beam????

I was thinking about your comment of wanting the Frig out of your work area because of the kids. Have you thought about moving your washer and dryer toward the windows when you take out that wall and having your frig next to the opening to your dining room (doors opening toward the island)??? Moving the washer dryer over and not doing the pantry at the entrance to the dining room is way cheaper then buying a new counter depth frig (plus you will loose quite a bit of room inside the frig if you go counter depth). THEN you could take the wall next to the basement stairs and make it one HUGE pantry/storage area (leaving the range on the wall with the sink like in my plan "D")

ALSO, did you note that I added two closets in my plan "D"? You had commented on being short closet space!!!

I just finished this planning stuff and we are starting construction next week! So I know what you are going through in trying to work all this out.

Benjesbride's plan from Wednesday makes the most sense to me and is the most attractive and smart. All of the other ones look awkward in one way or another. This plan also gives you the most storage and potential for more peninsula seating (you can put a third or even a third and fourth stool on the end/other side if you want, with just a knee spot). (I'll come back and show a pic from my kitchen in a min.)

I understand not wanting to redo something you've already done (washer location, size of fridge), but if the overall end result is so much better just fixing those mistakes, it might be better to wait a little longer, save a little more, and do it right? Looking back on my own projects, I totally feel this way. Have no regrets once you have to live with the new setup.

Regardless-- Why do you need three chairs/counter spots in the mudroom looking out the window with the bad view? Would anyone actually sit here? In my house they would become a junk pile. (This is coming from someone who bought 3 desks for her kids to do homework and they never sit in them, ever, in 15 years. They much preferred the dining room table for homework. If they're on the laptop, they want to sit on a comfy couch or bed. Would YOU sit there where you say there is a bad view?)

Editing to add pics of how a small peninsula off a wall can have a third seat with creative cabinet arrangement so people don't have to sit smushed. It would be awfully nice to be able to sit 5 in your kitchen, actually. I have 3 spots/3 kids and we always needed more spots to sit. (I have often fantasized about ripping this thing out and replacing it with a comfy, old-fashioned kitchen table.)

mrykbee: Thanks for your input! It's hard to convey how the space looks/feels even with photos and drawings. The current kitchen is part of the original 100+ year old house and the ceiling height is the same height as the living and dining rooms. The mudroom was an addition thus the lower ceiling height. If we eliminated the windows as benjesbride suggested, it would end up feeling much smaller and more cramped than the current kitchen. I only looked at adding the extra stools if we went with a plan that eliminated the peninsula, idea being I could have my kids eat lunch there. Not my favorite idea. The view isn't bad - we planted a nice row of arborvitae - it's just not as great as the view to the backyard. I hear you on wanting to be able to fit more seating in the kitchen! I worked a long time with a plan that had a banquette along the mudroom wall so we could get a full table in there. It has its merits, but still a little congested. With widening the opening to the dining room, I'm hoping that will feel close enough to the kitchen.

jaime: Congrats on getting started with your remodel! I'm attaching a view from the mudroom with the fridge as you suggest. The window location makes it a little tricky to move the washer and dryer down, but maybe stacked behind a cabinet door could work? Unfortunately, it won't be too easy to move the plumbing again (they had to drill through a major beam in the basement and work in a tight crawl space) but I'm willing to explore all the options! We definitely could do closets by the door, but I like the ease and openness of wall hooks and a bench. It forces us to keep our coats/shoes carefully edited. I was planning to use the bottom drawers along the other wall to store shoes and seasonal gear. I guess one concern with the fridge at the end of the peninsula would be if that would end up getting congested too?

I am not sure where your project is after all this time, but perhaps this suggestion will help other people with a similar problem. I would suggest an Option C, and this means placing the refrigerator and range along the outside wall on the left side of your drawing. I would suggest placing the refrigerator near the upper left-hand corner of the drawing, leaving room to open the door fully. Next, I would suggest placing the range near the lower, left-hand corner of the left wall, leaving room for counter space on each side of the range. The base and upper cabinets could come around in an L-shape to make a serving pass-through to the dining room. You could have a much larger pantry by placing it in the rectangle above the counter where you have the bar stools and have the pantry door facing the pathway through this side of the kitchen.

Next, I would suggest leaving the kitchen sink and dishwasher where they are. However, I would suggest placing the washer and dryer in the space next to the interior wall of the basement stairway, where you had the range in Option B. The washer would be close tot he plumbing for the kitchen sink, and the dryer could be vented into the basement or an outside wall if that is what you have on the right side of the drawing. I realize your post may be an old one, but, as I wrote above, maybe the advice will help other people who follow "Houzz."